Michael Chandler on the Walk-On Mentality and UFC Mindset

Full transcript of the Tom Rowland Podcast, Episode 618, with Michael Chandler. Lightly edited for clarity and readability; sponsor-read segments and brief backchannel interjections removed.

The Walk-On Mentality

Michael Chandler: Hi. Michael Chandler, top five UFC lightweight, and this is the Tom Rowland podcast.

Tom Rowland: Michael Chandler. Tom, how are you, man? I'm doing great, man. We're here in your beautiful new house and your beautiful new podcast studio. Is this the first one?

Michael Chandler: This is it, man. We we just Yeah. This is actually really cool. I, I've been sitting here, like, you know, projecting the future, but also really excited about sitting here and talking with talking with you. And, yeah, we're sitting here looking at these microphones and Well,

Tom Rowland: it's gonna be a great thing. It's like a blank slate, you know? Now when you have a big empty room or or a big, I don't know, empty closet, it fills. You know? You ever notice that? Yeah. Like, if you have an empty thing in your house, all of a sudden you don't do you don't plan on filling it up, but then it's just full. Yep. Right? And that's what this will be for you.

Michael Chandler: Build it and they will come. And also yeah. You know, there's little little things here that aren't even done yet, but it's like, you know, looking forward to the future when we get this thing completely done and all the lives that we can impact.

Tom Rowland: Nice. So we're sitting in Nashville. Yep. Not very far from where my wife grew up. So I'm a little bit familiar with the area, but this is, this is a hot area.

Michael Chandler: It is. Yeah. We, you know, we were talking before off off mic. We were you know, my wife and I moved here about five years ago. We just fell fell in love with the city. We love country music, obviously. We got some some friends here in in the city, and we both grew up in Missouri. So we, you know, saw the saw the upward projecting of projection of where Nashville was gonna be in a couple years. And it's just growing like crazy, and we love this place. And we have now planted our roots, and Nashville is our city. Nice.

Tom Rowland: Well, you got a good spot. This is this is a really nice spot.

Michael Chandler: Thank you.

Tom Rowland: My wife is, moved out of Nashville, still has a couple of sisters that live here, but, we come back and visit. And every time we come back, it looks a little bit different. Yeah.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. It's a construction city, Crane City. You drive downtown. There's cranes everywhere. You know, you drive up and down, you know, these areas. It's just like every other third house is torn down and brand new. And it's the city is changing like crazy, but it's, you know, it's it's an awesome city to be a part of right now. So

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, good. Your career has, has really taken the turn lately. It's, it's, it's really awesome to see. I've been following you. I'm a big, like we were talking before I grew up wrestling. I was a wrestling wrestler myself, a wrestling coach, a wrestling parent, and, hope to be a wrestling grandparent one day. But I love the sport. It's just so awesome. And so whenever I see a wrestler in the UFC, I I'm in their corner. Yeah. Right? And it's become increasingly harder now because now you have wrestlers against wrestlers. Yeah. Right? So you have to pick, okay, well, I I like that college better than I like the other or whatever, you know, whatever it is. But I always like to see the wrestlers succeed. And so I've been following your career for a long time. And even from Bellator, and then now you've gone to the UFC. And and recently, you're coming off something that just was unbelievable with the Tony Ferguson fight. Congratulations to you there. But one of the things that, I've always wanted to talk to you about is is mindset. Mhmm. Just you you epitomize mindset and manifesting things in my opinion. And I just really wanted to to to talk to you about that because it's you you're very vocal about it. You're very inspirational and motivational to other people. But it's it seems like and I've even heard you say it on other other podcast. You're a small you're a small guy from a small town taught to do small things. Mhmm. And something has changed.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. What's changed? You know, I think it's I think just I I talk about the walk on mentality. Like, me, I I believe I believe foregoing the scholarships to division two, division three NAIA schools and walking on to the University of Missouri was the single best decision that I made in my entire athletic life, but it also spilled into every single other aspect of of my life. I think knowing where you started, knowing that you're the lowest guy on the totem pole, you know, we were talking about Brian Smith. I love Brian Smith and what he has done for University of Missouri. But to me, he was a godlike figure that first year when I came in. And for him to never look at me, speak to me, talk at me, look in my direction, say, good job, kid. Although it didn't offend me and I I wasn't worth his time, I wanted to prove to him, not just to him, but to myself. I wanted to prove to all my friends in in High Ridge, Missouri, Jefferson County, Missouri that said, hey, why don't you go take this division three scholarship? Why don't Why don't you go take this division three scholarship? Why don't you go take that take that NAI scholarship? Or something in me, thank God, it went against the grain of what everybody thought I was capable of. I made that decision to walk on and know where I started. And and now I sit sit here in a, you know, multiple time Bellator world champion and top five in the UFC. And I I do believe that it's the calling on my life that I will become that UFC champion in the next couple years. That I am commissioned and I am convicted every single day that I wake up that there is some kid out there in a small town somewhere who may not believe certain things about himself because of what his parents have put on on top of him, the box that he has been put in by his peers, the self fulfilling prophecies that he has constantly caught in that I was caught in. You know, I was a late bloomer, didn't have hair in my armpits, so I was almost 19 years old. You know? And, like, we were talking, I chose wrestling. Well, it wasn't like I chose wrestling. Wrestling chose me because I was five foot five foot nothing, a hundred and twenty pounds, and there was no other sport that I was gonna be able to play. So I think I think it comes from a deep conviction that there's so many young kids out there around the entire world that felt exactly like I did and even and even more so feel even more insignificant that I felt and smaller than I felt that I just want I want them to see that if if Michael Chandler, the small guy from a small town who was taught to do small things can do things that where I'm at right now, then I've gotta spread that message. I've gotta make these people believe themselves.

Tom Rowland: Nice. So you're wearing the walk on shirt, walk on hat. So what does that mean to you, walk on?

Michael Chandler: You know, I think, you know, for me, it's, like I said, it it's it's the the single cornerstone that I've built my my entire life around, making that decision to walk on to the University of Missouri. I think it's you you I had to do more than what was expected of me. I had to do more than what was asked of me. I had to answer the phone calls to the upperclassmen. I think of Tyron Woodley who ended up you know, we all know he'd be end up becoming UFC champion, Ben Askren, who ended up becoming, you know, fighting in the UFC multiple time world champion. These guys were like my big brothers. But it was I was the guy that they would call at, you know, whatever time I would, you know, I'd as long as I didn't have to skip class or if it was a class that I knew I could or could not skip, I would be there. I would be in the gym. I would be in the practice room sometimes three, four, five times a day if I had to to not only was I trying to get better physically, but I was trying to prove, hey. I'm here. I I am a pawn in this system, and I'm gonna be used as much as I possibly could. I would have been completely okay getting to the end of my my college career and look at myself in the mirror and say, okay, maybe I wasn't a national champion. Maybe I wasn't an all American, but there was not one day that I did not push myself to the limit and make myself of service to this this program.

Tom Rowland: Like Rudy.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. I mean, kinda.

Tom Rowland: But then but but you made it. I mean, you became the all American.

Michael Chandler: You Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Did it, but it's that work ethic of, like that's why people love that movie, Rudy.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. Because that's what he did.

Tom Rowland: Like, he he didn't I mean, every by all by all measure, he didn't deserve to be there Until he did the work and did the work and did the work to be there. And it was awesome.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. And and I think that's something that's getting glossed over in in today's society as well is that we've seen so many people gain so much success so quickly that our our standard of what hard work is and what it takes to become successful has been continued to be diminished, continued to be watered down, continued to be seem like it's so much more easily attainable than it than it should be. And I just I've just always I'm a son of a carpenter and a son of a secretary. Like I said, small town, High Ridge, Missouri. And when I walked onto that team, I said, I don't I don't care if I reach my goals or not. I'm gonna put myself out there, and I'm gonna show up first. I'm gonna leave late. I'm gonna be of service, and I'm gonna do more than what is required. I mean, I think that's the walk on mentality. I think even even to this day, people would say, well, you got this and you got this following, you got these zeros in your bank account, or you got this, you know, you got the wife and you got the kids in the house. But to me, I'm still waking up every single day and the rent is due every single day.

Tom Rowland: You

Michael Chandler: know, as as you've heard it a thousand times, it's success is never owned, it's rented, and that rent is due every single day. And that's just the mentality that I had. And it's it's a walk on mentality in mixed martial arts. We call it a, white belt mentality. Mhmm. Where even if you're a world champion, you still got the open mind and the open heart to serve and be they'll still be the white belt like you were the first day you walked into the gym with the starry starry eyes and a bright future.

Tom Rowland: You can learn from everybody. Yeah. So it's one thing to be in that situation and to do the work every single day. And in my opinion, it's almost there's a place where it's almost easier to find yourself there and just start churning out that work than it is to be the kid that has the opportunity to go to the the the smaller school or whatever and then choose. And that's exactly what it is. It's a choice of I'm taking this harder choice. Yeah. May not be successful, may not, you know, probably gonna get laughed at. They're not I'm not gonna be welcome. I'm gonna take this harder choice. Tell me about that. Like, that's that's really where I see your career really starting is at that choice of of making that walk on choice.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. And and I really wish I do not do a good job of remembering things. You know, like when I always say when I when I write a book, like, I'm going to make it'll be my brother Eric, who seems to to remember everything about our childhood and about us coming up together and all that. And, you know, my wife over the last ten years, because I just don't I don't remember these things because I think I am so in the moment. I'm in the moment today, so I may not remember that much about today. And it's not because I fight and get hit in the head for a living. It's literally I just I think I'm in the moment, and I can't remember when I was that 17, 18 year old kid why I made that decision. Why being a being a small guy from a small town, you can find yourself in the herd, in the middle of the herd where everybody's doing something, and this is kinda what we do. We're from High Ridge, Missouri. You're either gonna get a job at Emo's Pizza or you're gonna be flipping tires over at at Dobbs Tires. And or you might be working on Chris Bonneker's farm. He had all this farmland and all these cows. And there was all these different things that, you know, we I fell into that herd mentality, and I was just I kinda wanted I always wanted to be a little bit vanilla because I never wanted to stand out. I never wanted to make people feel insecure about my confidence in myself. So I constantly diminished myself. So I have no idea why at that point in time because you gotta remember too, we're talking about scholarships. We're talking about I'm a middle class family. My mom my mom and dad worked two and two and three jobs to make sure my my my son or their sons, my two brothers, and myself had every single thing that we possibly needed. We had everything. We had a roof over our head. We had food. We weren't poor by any means, but we were not well-to-do at all. So I was making a decision that said, you know, mom, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna take on a little bit of student loan debt here instead of I can go take this zero, you know, zero emission fees to a different school. And luckily, my parents were on board with it because I had this feeling in my heart that if I'm gonna wrestle, I'm gonna try to wrestle at the highest level. And even if I'm a bench warmer, even if I, become a training partner for five years, even if I quit, and I have to go back to high Risk Missouri with my hat in my hand and everybody's got their finger pointed at me and said, I told you so. That's where you wanna be. You wanna be in those moments. And I've and now even as a as a guy who's now had 30 fights, this you alluded to the Tony Ferguson fight. This is my thirtieth fight. That's a lot of professional fights. And, you know, obviously, I'm I'm a veteran now of the sport. But even now, I talk about this idea that even though you've sat in front of a TV or I've sat in front of a TV and we've watched somebody lose, we've watched them dare greatly and fail and fall flat on their face. You have that feeling that, gosh, that's embarrassing for that person or, oh, I'm glad I'm not in that person's shoes. I truly believe that the human spirit gets unlocked a little bit in those moments where we can say, yes. I do feel sorry for him, but I'm kind of envious that that man or that woman put themselves out there like that. And I've and I've done that so many times now, and it's embarrassing when you lose in front of millions of people. And it was embarrassing when when I wasn't an all American up until finally my senior year, and I would go back between school years and, yeah, still on the wrestling team. And I I made the team this year, but, you know, I went, you know, twenty and sixteen. I didn't exactly have a great record, You know? But it's in those moments where people can say, yeah. That's the dude's not exactly successful, but I kinda wish I would trade places with him because I know what I'm doing. I wish I was putting myself out there a little bit more like that. And it's just given I've just been given so many opportunities that, man, I'm gonna ride this thing till the wheels fall off. And when I get done fighting, I'm gonna keep on talking on microphones and being surrounded by people like yourself and try to make an impact.

Making the Hard Choice and Trusting the Timing

Tom Rowland: Well, you know, there's there's an incredible feeling of making that hard choice. And I've heard you say, and lots of people have said, you know, success is on the outside of your comfort zone. For you, that was pretty far outside your comfort zone. You're you're you're not taking a scholarship that you really needed, and you're choosing to do this walk on thing. That's where, like, I wonder, like, what advice you give to somebody that is in that situation of, like, you know, even just going to college and wrestling at that at that, you know, division three school, that that would have been considered success. Right? I mean, that was that was good. You got you earned a scholarship. You're a great wrestler. You're doing great things. So that is, you know, to a lot of people around you. Hey. Good job, Mike. That could have been great. But you chose to, okay, no. That's not good enough like this. And so there's people all over in every walk of life, whether it's this guy that's thinking about being a a professional fisherman, and he's offered this great mate job on this awesome boat. It's gonna have insurance benefits, going to be all this, or he could buy his own boat and he could do it himself. Like, he's standing there at that at that precipice of looking at this cliff and going, do I take the easy road, which is success, Or do I take this hard road? Like Mhmm. As you've done this and you look back on that as a big part of your career, and you're obviously, the walk on mentality is is like, that's you. Yeah. What do you say to that person right now?

Michael Chandler: Well, I love I love what you said too, because even bringing it back to watching, as I talk about, like, kind of the man in the arena Mhmm. I think so many people watch people maybe fail or put themselves out there, or they need to recalibrate because they're looking at their situation and knowing that they have played it safe so many times, and there's something that they envy about that. Because we always we will always envy those that are daring more than we are. You know, they're more wild at heart. They need a battle to fight, an adventure to have, and a beauty to win, and they're out there and they're chasing that. You know, that's that's John Eldridge's book, Wild at Heart. Any young man out there, it's been around for a long time, I'd suggest you read that book. It's an amazing it's an amazing book about the heart of the man. But then I think about that person who who is in that position where it's like, hey, I need to make a decision here. What I am doing right now is not fueling me. What I am doing right now does not make me feel a 100% alive. I believe God pre created us to be a 100% alive. We're all gonna be living eighty years or whatever it is on this earth. But are we really alive? Are we really soaking and squeezing every ounce of happiness, joy, and contentment, and peace, and and even zeal, and and thriving in inside this this life? And I'd be lying if I didn't say there wasn't seasons of my life where I just kinda felt blah or I knew I wasn't making the right decision or I knew that I was playing it safe. I think at some point, once it's panned out for you, you know, once I walk on and I see that it works out, and then once I decide to go to Bellator and I'm like, well, I'm signing with Bellator because there's this tournament. And if I win the tournament, I get the world title or I get to fight for the world title. Then I win the tournament. Then I fight for the world title and I become, you know, top three in the world. Mhmm. And then I go through some ups and downs, win the title, whatnot. And then I go to then I go from Bellator to deciding, okay, I'm gonna test free agency and then go to UFC.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That's another that's another it's kind of another walk Kind of fork in the road.

Michael Chandler: It was an exactly it was exactly the walk on story from a decade and a half previous because I had the relative security. I could have retired with Bellator making great with making a great paycheck and had the security and been a pillar in that organization, helping to build that organization while they also helped build me. But I needed to bear I needed to to brave the unknown. And even though I didn't know Dana White, I didn't know anybody in the UFC. I knew what they had to offer if I came through with my end of the bargain. And my end of the bargain was showing up and winning fights and being entertaining. And so far here I am four fights in, and it was the best decision now that I that I could have made in in my MMA career. And to that person, any advice I would say is you have to know that you're making the right decision at the right time. Sometimes we put too much pressure on ourselves that we know what we want, but maybe it's not the right time. It could be the right decision, but it could be the wrong time because you have to you have to make sure that you don't make an ill advised decision to be like, hey. I'm gonna give up this great paying job that to something that fuels my passion, but it pays me $0, but I got a wife and two kids at home. Well, I'm not saying do that. But what I am saying is maybe your eight hour day needs to turn into a four fourteen hour workday where you're working on your passion a couple more hours. And, you know, it's it's hard because it's case by case basis, but continue to continue to to pray over James one five. He who lacks wisdom, the Lord your God who gives it abundantly will will it will be given to you. And I remember praying that prayer and and and reading that right before I walked into my my meeting with the UFC. And I did not have an ounce of wisdom on how the heck it was gonna happen. I prayed that prayer and all of a sudden I went in there and walked out with a contract and it's been the best decision I've ever made. And now it was actually my father-in-law who who sent me that scripture that day. And I I pray over James one five every single time there's a big decision because I don't have the wisdom. I don't have the smarts. I don't have the information. I don't even know exactly what I want in a lot of these situations. But he who he who asks for wisdom, the lord your god will give it abundantly.

Tom Rowland: Wow. That's awesome. Isn't it it's it's freeing sometimes to to get to a point in your life where you can say, I don't have the wisdom. Mhmm. I don't know what I'm doing. Right? Because so much of your life, you you fake it, and you you you think that everybody expects you to know this. And then when you finally get to a point to where you're you're comfortable with yourself enough to where you can say, you know, I don't know what I'm doing.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. I love that.

Tom Rowland: That's that's a powerful place. It really is because you you know, well, look, I didn't know what I was doing in this situation, in this situation, in this situation, in this situation. All of those worked out. Yep. And so why do I wanna fake it and pretend like I know what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing? And then the fact that you it's almost like that empty closet. The fact that you say you don't know what you're doing, you've opened this up, and it gets full of knowledge. Like, I don't know. It's just funny how that happens.

Michael Chandler: Well, I love it. And then you you you find yourself not only faking, but you try to force you try to force it. And also, you might try to force something where you're forcing a square peg into a round hole at the wrong time during the wrong season, you know, and you're making ill advised decisions because you know you think you know what you want. But how many times in your life, you're a little bit older than I am, but how many times are you thanking God for unanswered prayers?

Tom Rowland: How many months.

Michael Chandler: Right? Got the old Garth Brooks song. How many times how many times are you like, thank god that didn't happen? Because I actually now that I realize it, I'm so happy that didn't happen. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Whether it's taking you on a whole different road.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. And it's and it's crazy. It's kinda like what you said though too. When you look back at your life thus far, and I don't care if you're 18 years old and you think about my elementary school, middle school, and you're 18. Or or now here I am 36. And I look back at all these different seasons, and I think, man, I was so worried about this thing that either a never happened or b eventually did happen. It just wasn't the right time. Mhmm. You know? It can't be you can't you can't try to going back to this idea of of trying to figure it all out. Once you let it go, like just like you said, once you let it go a little bit, it's almost at that moment that things start shifting. And I think so many times in my life was I so focused on, I have to have this happen. I this has to work out. That has to work out. And I focus and focus and focus on it. But as soon as I'm like, you know what? Man, forget it. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. And then all of a sudden, the next day, a phone call, a text message, a handshake, a serendipitous meeting happens. And you're like, well, how in the heck did that just happen? I just finally gave that up and realized I didn't need it anymore. And then all of a sudden, it happens. You know, what's for you? And I and my wife and I, we're we just went through the adoption process. We just just adopted a new baby boy and a new second baby boy. And we were talking to one of the adoption consultants one day, and she said something that really stuck with me. She said, what was meant for you won't pass you up. So when you're so worried about what is meant for you and you're focusing on it and you're praying over it or you're you're thinking about it and you're visualizing it, it's not gonna pass you up if it's meant for you. And if it is meant for you, it's gonna pass you up. What is meant for you won't pass you up. And I've just been I've been thinking about that almost every single day since I I heard her say that day that that day, and life just keeps on working out. You just have to still be standing there believing that it's going to when it does.

Tom Rowland: And then being ready to walk through the door Exactly. That's presented to you. Exactly. Right? Like, there's a door often presented and and, like, you've been wanting this and wanting this and wanting this, and then, boom, here comes this phone call. And it's like, no. Don't want that. Yep. But that's that was it. Yeah. That was it. That was the opportunity you've been looking for. Right? And that's where a lot of people get to that door and they go, no. Yeah. And that's that's that leads to regret. Mhmm. And, like, the all that we've been talking about, like, it's it's it's pure bliss when you do all this work and it works out and it happens and it feels so rewarding. But the opposite side of that is to look back twenty years later and go, you know what? I should have tried. Yep. I should have tried. And living with regret is not anything that anybody wants to you can take whatever whatever benefits you get out of success, whatever joy you get out of it, whatever whatever you feel is it's worse Yeah. With regret, like, having never done it. What do you think about, do you think about positive versus negative on a daily basis, like, in your in your mindset? Like, you're, you know, a lot of what we're talking about is kind of, like, the positive side would be to to manifest these things and think about them. The negative side would be to I don't know. It it would be the opposite of that. Do you think about that?

Choosing Positivity and a Gratitude Practice

Michael Chandler: I do. You know? And I think I will admit, I think I've been a a naturally optimistic person my entire life. You know? And I I say naturally because I think it starts at a young age whether you're and who you're around, whether you're kinda somewhat naturally optimistic. But then as you get a little bit older and I I talk about this as well. And, re recently, I I don't think we get old. I think we get lazy and busy. You know? I think we get busy, so therefore, we're we're so overstimulated and got so much stuff going on that we get a little bit lazy. And, obviously, now being 36 years old, fighting in the UFC, I fought four five times. Basically, I waited one time five times in sixteen, eighteen months. Been extremely busy. Got a lot of stuff going on. Got a wife. Got numerous kids now, two kids. We We just get we have to start compartmentalizing all these different things that we have going on. So I now I have to find myself choosing to be positive in these scenarios. And once again, going back to what we're just talking about, most of the time, it works out. Most of the time, things work out. Most of the time that we things that we worry about actually never happen. And I'm lying to you if I sit here and say I'm not don't worry about things often, but it's you know, because it happens. We are naturally we are naturally self preservation seeking organisms here on on the earth, trying to trying to mitigate all the risk and try to try to get away from comfort. And I know you and I talked about comfort. I think the more we push ourselves outside of our comfort zone and the more we push ourselves into hard things, which can sometimes be perceived as negative, your mindset mindset starts shifting into, okay, how is this situation gonna serve me? How is this negative thing going to serve me? If it's if it's a bad thing that happens to me, but a good thing comes of it, was it really a bad thing? So what may seem like a bad thing right now, I've seen this play out. Like, I'm watching a movie again in my life. Each season is a new little movie that I'm watching where something bad happens and you're the hero of your own story. You're the you're the protagonist and there's an antagonist. And then by the end of that season, by the end of that scene, by the end of that movie, something great happens and there's there's this glorious moment where, you know, something great happens. But I think about the positive and and negative a a lot, actually. And I think it does. Now that I say now that I use the word naturally naturally optimistic, I think when I was when I was younger, I was a little bit naturally optimistic, but now I'm a I'm a chosen optimist more more so than than not because we can all wake up every single day, turn flip on the news and look at five different things that we're like, okay, this is, you know, life is rough and the breach keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer. And, you know, I'm not sure about this and not sure about that. But when you go into every when you really start living your life more from a gratitude standpoint, you're going to be more naturally optimistic. When you wake up in the morning and you talk about or think about or pray over the five things that you're thankful for, it's hard to have start it's hard to start your day off on a on a negative day. Man, that A negative way.

Tom Rowland: That was huge for me. Mhmm. When I when when that happened for me, the the gratitude, and having a daily gratitude practice, everything in my life changed. I I I really do believe that there was kind of a a period there where I started to learn the value of gratitude and practice it on a daily basis, and then things started happening. I also started thinking about, you know, choosing to be positive rather than choosing to be negative. And it is a choice. Like, you can sit there and look at things and, you know, there's the the thing where they say every subject is really two subjects. There's a positive side and there's a negative side. And when I started choosing gratitude and choosing positivity, that's where everything changed in my career, my family, everything changed. Yep. And, it's it's awesome. Yeah.

Michael Chandler: I mean, well, it's it's impossible to be negative and, full of grateful Are full of gratitude at the same time. You can't be grateful and negative about your life when you're thinking about what you're grateful for. I mean, it's similar to the one of the biggest questions I always get asked is, hey. What's going through your mind when you're walking to the cage? You're about to fight a guy in a cage who's gonna punch you, kick you, and knee you, and elbow you in front of millions of people. And I say, well, what I do is I talk to myself. Because if I listen to myself, I'm I might hear negativity. If I hear negativity, it's gonna throw me off. It's gonna get into my psyche right before. So in the same vein, if I'm talking to myself and I'm speaking positive things over my life, I'm talking talking to myself about how I deserve to win, how great I am, how talented I am, how hard I've worked. I'm sitting here and I'm filling this microphone up with with sound waves, so therefore, there's no negativity that could come out. There's no thoughts that could come out and sink into my brain, sink into my soul. Same thing with with your gratitude. When you wake up in the morning, whether it's 10 things, five things, or even one thing, you're also not only can you not be negative in that in that moment, then it starts a perpetual motion of gratitude throughout the day. And then also at the same time, you're opening the door for more good things to happen to you, similar to what you talked about the choices. Sometimes just letting that choice go or letting that outcome go, then all of a sudden you're blessed with it. Or letting letting letting that that grip of of what you have to have, let it go, and then all of a sudden you're blessed with it. Same thing with gratitude. You when you focus on it and and use it and you start your day with it, then you're at least moving forward in a in a grateful way throughout the the first couple hours of your day.

Tom Rowland: Is that what you do you have a practice that you could tell us what your your gratitude practice is? Yeah. Is it five things that every day that what you do?

Michael Chandler: Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's it's funny for me for me, I I will admit it's not exactly the same every every single day. Sometimes and I and I do it a lot when I'm in training camp. Sometimes it's just, you know, I am grateful for, I am grateful for, I am grateful for. It's

Tom Rowland: like a journaling?

Michael Chandler: Yeah. And I write out the words I am grateful for just because I wanna get more words, more mind body connection to that pencil or to that pen, or I have a remarkable tablet that I use that's electronic. But, or honestly, sometimes I just and this is it might sound to the to the person listening to it, it might sound like I am an extreme narcissist when I say, I write down everything that I that I love about myself or I love about my life, and I and I also write down all of my attributes as an athlete. Because, Tom, I'll tell you right now, there was so many years that I spent thinking that I was small, weak, insignificant, in athletic, a loser, can't be a champion, can't win. I always blow it in those moments. So when I have spent thousands and thousands of of words that were negative towards my physical self and my mental self, my emotional self, I am unpacking that baggage. I am reversing those hands of time. I am I am erasing all of those pages, all of those those words off of the proverbial paper that are that are in my brain. So I will write down, I am extremely athletic. When I hit somebody with my right hand, they wobble. When I hit somebody with my left hand, they wobble. My cardio is impeccable. I mean, I write down these these things that sound similar When you talk about writing down your goals, you want to write down goals that scare you a little bit. The big, hairy, audacious goal goals, not the well, I want to be kind of successful. No. I want to be I want to be like this guy. I want to have this kind of money. I want to have this jet this on this day. On this day. Exactly. So for me, I'm I'm writing down those words about myself that made me feel a little bit uncomfortable. You know, if I wrote down, I am going to be a megastar bigger than Conor McGregor. Sounds pretty crazy. And it makes me feel uncomfortable. And I'm not saying I have written that or I have have written that or I haven't, but writing down those things that almost seem unattainable. Am I ever gonna be as big as Conor McGregor from a a star standpoint? We don't know. It's gonna be a very, very hard goal to meet because he's huge. But write down those things because it's just you in your in your lonesome sitting right there with that, just like you have a pen and paper in front of you. It's just you. Don't be afraid to write it down. It's you and God sitting there with a pen and paper.

Tom Rowland: But if you never write it down, you never start true. And 100% you never you never plant that seed that could eventually grow into anything. Exactly. That's that's awesome, man. Let me ask you about, change the subject for a minute. Let me ask you about parenting.

Raising His Sons to Believe in Themselves

Michael Chandler: Love it.

Tom Rowland: Because, you you now have two children and they obviously mean a lot to you. You you you've I just saw that you had your son at the fight for the first time. Right? That was the first time we had seen you fight. Have he seen you train and lots of other things. Right? Yep.

Michael Chandler: He's come down to Florida a little bit and watched me train and then he's seen me train here.

Tom Rowland: Cool. Well, obviously, family is is super important to you. Mindset is also super important to you. You said that you're a small a small guy from a small town taught to do small things. You've also said that, you know, your parents gave you everything that that you could ever want. Right? But just because of the way things are, there's limiting beliefs at some point that you've blown through. Right? So my question and what I was kind of interested in is being a small guy from a small town with taught to do small things and limiting beliefs, how have you thought about how you will now instill a different mindset into your children and what you will do with that? Like, what I mean, I'm sure you're thinking about it. Every single day. Right? But what what kind of things are you thinking about? Because it is a I mean, like, a child is is moldable. I I they like, you you say you were taught to do small things. Well, it's not your parents' fault. That's just kind of the way that it happened. Right? And you've blown through that ceiling, and you now realize that there aren't any limiting beliefs. Right? So how do you how how what message will you give your children?

Michael Chandler: You know, and and and thank you for asking that because I think it's I think it's something that gets lost. I think we think as long as we keep our kids alive and, you know, they got a roof over their head and they got they got food and maybe some social activity, then they're gonna be fine. And they're just gonna grow into what they're supposed to grow into. And I I don't believe that whatsoever. I think, as you said, you use this word moldable. I truly believe that I will be able to build my my two sons I have now and any future children that we may have. I can mold them into individuals that believe in themselves above all else. They believe that they were put on this earth for a purpose, and they weren't just put on this good on this earth to be good, but to be great and to be exceptional and to be extraordinary at whatever they choose to do. And I've heard people say, well, maybe you're setting the bar too high for your kid. I'm saying I'm not saying you need to be a millionaire, billionaire. I'm not saying you need to be a professional athlete. I'm not saying you need to be a celebrity. I'm just saying if you're a tax if you're a a CPA, you're gonna wake up every single morning loving yourself, feeling feeling secure in yourself, and feeling peace and joy and loving your job and doing whatever you wanna do. That's the that's what I'm worried about. I want HAP and I want ACE, and I want my sons to love themselves, believe in themselves, serve their God, serve other people, and build themselves into somebody who wants to do something great with their life. We have my my son is my son, Hap, is five, and we do we have so many sayings. You know, it started with when he would fall, I would say, hey. Every young man falls, and he would repeat to me, but every young man gets back up.

Tom Rowland: Nice. And

Michael Chandler: he would get an ouchie. He would get a dude. And and I and I do this I do this a lot too where I make him I make him finish my statement. We do it all the time. Like, right now, it's a lot of, hey, mommy, will you grab this? I'm like, hey, buddy. You have God bless you with two arms and two legs. Why don't you grab that? Why don't you grab that that drink? It's right there. You know? Because Chandlers are, and he'll say, self sufficient. Chandlers are self sufficient. Now I will serve this kid three hundred sixty five days a year, twenty four seven, but, you know, as a parent, you can't just give your kid every little thing and hand him a skittle because he's, you know, sitting there when he could have got up and got it himself. When he falls, we we talk about every every young man gets an ouchie, but every ouchie and he'll say heels. And then I I pray over him every single night, and he can recite it back. And I just I want him to believe that God put him on this earth for great things. When he walks into a room, people will take notice. When he speaks, people will listen. When he walks in a certain direction, people will follow. He is a leader, and he is gonna serve people, and he is gonna do something great with his life. And as I said, I'm not saying he has to be uber wealthy, uber successful, what what what society and what the world calls successful these days. I just want him to be happy, healthy, secure, and and know that he is loved and love on other people in whatever he chooses to do. So I just I may be a little overboard with it. I may be a little bit over maybe I talk about it too much. I mean, I've probably told the kid I'm proud of him a 150,000 times in the last couple years, and he's probably like, maybe I'm telling him too much. Because it's not like, hey. I'm proud of you that you were able to pick up that that pen. You know? It's but it's just like, I'm I am proud of you. At all times, I am proud of you. My favorite thing about life is being your dad, and I truly believe that. And it's easy to it's easy to tell him that when I truly believe that. And and as I said, my my parents didn't fall short in loving me or making us feel secure or we were taking you know, we were definitely taken care of, but they just did the only thing that they did not do that I wish they would have done was look at me in the eye and say, Michael, you can be successful. You deserve to be successful. You can accomplish ridiculously great things with your life. Outside of those county lines, there is a whole world out there, and that is it is your oyster, and you can do with it what you want as long as you are a good person and you try to do things right and you try to you need to work extremely hard. I mean, really, when you boil it down, try to be a good person, you try to work extremely hard and surround yourself with good people. What else what else is there from a just a boiler plate? You know? That's so I just want my my sons and my future kids to just know, man, this God created us not just to be good. We we were not created to be to be mediocre. We were not created to be to not be happy and thriving and loving life. And, you know, there's gonna be some ebbs and flows and ups and downs throughout the throughout the process, and I can't wait to be there for them and pick them up whenever they fall and be their shoulder to cry on when they need to. But they will know without a shadow of a doubt that they were created before great things.

Tom Rowland: That's awesome, man. So that that, I mean, you kind of alluded to it that what what your parents did and what you're doing, was slightly different. It

Michael Chandler: wasn't bad. They they were like, as you said, like, I love them so much, and I have so I will sit I'll sit here and say, I'm a world champion mixed martial artist and a all American wrestler. And I am a and I and I do even think I am a great father because I want to become a great father because my parents taught me how to work hard. I was all these physical things in in the sport of wrestling cause my parents taught me how to work hard, extremely hard. They were they're so much better than me in in other aspects that I'll never be as good at them at. And I'm better at making my sons believe in themselves a little bit more. And I probably fall short in the, you know, the yard work and the other stuff that my dad did really, really well that taught me to be the man that I am.

Wrestling, Losing, and the Gift of Adversity

Tom Rowland: Right? The hard work, the work ethic. Yeah. That's what wrestling builds to, though. I mean, there's nothing nothing like that, in my opinion. That's where, like, I I loved wrestling at sometimes I hated wrestling at other times. I liked wrestling For the most part. But, you know, there is that love hate thing where you're kinda like, yeah, I'm a wrestler. And then you're kinda like, oh, man. That means the season's coming up, and I'm not gonna be able to eat Thanksgiving with everybody. And I'll be cutting weight and the whole thing, and I just hate the whole thing. Right? And then something happens and you love the whole thing. Yeah. But that when I really loved wrestling was I had this I had this I had this period. It was with one of my best sponsors. I don't think I've ever told this story on the podcast, but it is really profound to me. You you might get it. You might like it. So with my guy from Oakley, and we're out fishing, and he he's talking, and we're no other boats on the water, and we're just having this great conversation. And I'm running the boat. We're gonna run for an hour and a half, And we're just gonna go and go and go and go. And he says, oh, what sports did you do? And I was telling him, I was like, wrestling and this and that. He's, oh, wrestling. That's cool. Were you state champion? And I said, no. No. I wasn't a state champion. He said, you seem kinda disappointed about that. I said, it's the biggest disappointment in my whole life. It's fourth place. Supposed to win, didn't win. Yeah. It's a real big disappointment. And he goes, oh, well, you know that's why you're successful today. Right? And I said, what do you mean? He goes, well, it's obvious. You you have four plans for everything that you're doing. You you have a plan a, b, c, d. You are super prepared. You, you're on time. You think about this all the time, and you've become very successful because you'll never let whatever that was that that happened in that tournament, you'll never let that happen again. And I was like, yeah, really? Like, you see that having been around me for a week. Yeah. And I haven't seen that in my at that at that time, it was probably forty years. I was like, and I haven't seen that in my forty years that that thing that I'm considering one of my greatest failures in my entire life has been the biggest gift I was ever given, and you you just saw that immediately. Yep. And he goes, yeah. Yeah. I saw that immediately. But it's kinda funny. And then then I really embraced it. And I was like, man, that is right. Because if I had won that match, then I probably would have wrestled in college, and I probably would have done all these other things, and I would have never lived this life. Yep. And I love this life. And so that's a gift, and I'm thanking everything for that gift. Yep. Right? Yeah. But you don't perceive it as that. And that's kinda like what we talked about before. Like, if if it's meant for you, it will it won't pass you up.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. And if a bad thing happens to you, like, fourth place is a horrible thing. Horrible. Maybe people who don't wrestle No. Can't understand.

Tom Rowland: But not when you're not when you've already beat the guy that wins Yep. In the season, and you beat everybody else And you're supposed to win. Mhmm. And you've done the work. Yep. But you weren't right between the years. Yeah. And that's what happened.

Michael Chandler: And that's well, yeah. And I think that's I think the same think the same thing for me as well. I think I was so dissatisfied by just becoming a one time all American. You know? You don't really realize it till you look back and think, man, why didn't I just believe believe in myself freshman year, sophomore year, junior year? I lost in the all American round two other times. I lost in all Americans round three times. That that's the they call it the blood round, you know, where you win, you're an all American, you lose, you go home empty handed. And I kept finding myself losing in that until finally senior year I became an all American, but I was just so dissatisfied. And I think with that, there was probably a moment where, yeah, it fueled you, but you also looked back and said, man, why did it why why didn't I just win it? I should have won it. I put in the work. I did the right thing. I I I deserved to win it. So therefore, now, subconsciously, every single thing you do in your life, you're like, I don't want that to happen again. So now you're running from now you're you're constantly running from that feeling. And the only way to run from that feeling is to run into, like you said, plan a, b, and c. Run into the first one the first one to show up, never late. Run into integrity. Run into character. Run into the man that you want to become, who you may not have ever become had you been a state champion that that year. Right. Had I been in the national championship?

Tom Rowland: Unanswered prayer that you were talking about before. Like, had that happened, it was just easy. You know? I did what I was supposed to do through the guy, put him on his back, just like I did earlier in the season. Yep. Win. Yeah. But that's not what happened. No. I got beat by somebody that was not even seated. Gosh. Right? And you go to the consolation finals, and then you're so depressed and down about the whole thing that you then you lose that one too.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Exactly. Like, I I like even numbers. It's funny. My wife likes odd numbers, and I never really thought about I always loved even numbers. But the even numbers were the ones that met you lost your last match in the tournament. You want to take first, third, fifth or seventh. Right. You don't want to take second point, sixth, or eighth

Tom Rowland: because I always lost it. Like, third place is almost like in in a wrestling tournament, like, third place. Like, that's the guy. Yeah. Because he was doing great, then he lost, and then he won it, and he fought back and won again. Yep. Like, that's that's good. Every story needs a little adversity. Right.

Michael Chandler: You know? Like, the guy who the guy who just went through the tournament and won every match, there was no of course, there was moments of adversity, but the guy who took third means he got kicked in the teeth, had to pull himself back up, and then go wrestle again, and then somehow muster up the gumption to to win again. Right. Believe that he could win and not just be like, well, I can't take first anymore, so why don't I just, you know, bow out of the tournament? Right. And I think too many people do that in that in life as soon as they have a little bit of a setback where they realize they're not gonna reach that certain milestone, that certain goal, that certain number, that certain thing that they want to accomplish, they say they just pack it in instead of realizing there is so much there is so much more for you that may not be that exact thing that you quote, unquote thought you wanted, but there's so much more success and so much more significance and contentment and and happiness and joy and some of these other things if you just continue to pursue.

Tom Rowland: You know, that's that's That's well, just like taking third, but just like being a wrestler at

Michael Chandler: all Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Is that you can be losing. Well, now there's a 15 rule or whatever, but at one point, there wasn't. Right? Mhmm. You could be losing for five minutes and thirty seconds. Yeah. The whole time, you're getting killed, and then you can pin him Yep. And win. Still a chance. That's what I always liked about wrestling is that there was always a chance. But then but then you take that into life, and it's like, you just gotta fight till the last second. Yep. No matter what it is. Like, even though even if it looks like you're just getting killed, you fight till the last second and you can always win. Yep. Well, I and

Michael Chandler: I think that's why wrestlers are successful. You alluded to wrestlers being successful in mixed martial arts. I mean, it's not the fact that we can pick guys up and put them down and and I can control your body or I know how to take you down and a boxer doesn't. It's it's the physical aspect of being well versed in hand to hand combat, being down in the suck, in the valley, in those moments where you wanna you can't tell if you're gonna pass out or puke or puke then pass out outside of your comfort zone stuck in this four walls, and it's hot in there. And you got your coach breathing down your neck. And not to mention, he's breathing down your neck, but you got the guy, you know, who's your backup trying to nip at your heels, trying to take your spot. It's like a Yeah.

Tom Rowland: And a fresh guy coming in every thirty seconds. It's just

Michael Chandler: a microcosm meritocracy of just suckiness, but you love it. You hate it. But like you said, you you hate it, but you love it. But then you you like it. You loved you liked being a wrestler. You hated it sometimes. You loved it sometimes. But I think that's that's life, isn't it?

Tom Rowland: Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It is. It is. And and there's so many things about it. And when I really embraced, like, how much I liked wrestling was when I, you know, I told you that story about the sponsor, but then I start looking back at at it and I'm like, you know what? Almost all the success that I've enjoyed has come from my background in wrestling. Mhmm. Because it's work ethic. It's being on time. It's preparing. You know, you can't you can't go to a weight cut. Like, you just have the you have these crazy weight cuts, man. I'd love to talk to you about that.

Weight Cutting, Diet, and Training

Michael Chandler: Too soon.

Tom Rowland: Don't talk about it. How much are you weighing today?

Michael Chandler: I'm actually pretty pretty lean. I've stayed one eighty six, one eighty seven,

Tom Rowland: one eighty six. Yeah.

Michael Chandler: But I've stayed very lean. I've been doing mainly carnivore. I haven't hadn't had much carbs. Really? I mean, yeah. I mean, normally, I'm like, man. Okay. Wheel wheels are off. I don't know. I just I got this feeling. I got this got this new newfound feeling, you know, that I'm just like, I know the end is nearer than I than I want it to be. You know? That so I'm gonna spend every single day thinking about the end of it. And I've thought about the end of it for years now. I think about that moment where I take off the gloves for the last time, you know, and it's and it's gonna be I'm I'm excited about the next chapter. I'm excited that I'm a I got a beautiful family and and what I get to do next, but, you know, I know it's I only have a a certain clock that it's and it's ticking. You know? So I wanna just take care of my body as much as possible. So I've just stayed pretty lean and

Tom Rowland: So the carbs are the enemy? Carbs are the absolute enemy. You think

Michael Chandler: for you? 100%. For everybody on the entire planet. You think so? Yes. What? I don't know. The only carbs I eat are vegetables and, sweet potato.

Tom Rowland: Sweet potato. That's good. That's a good carb.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. But I but I cut that down to about four ounces four ounces a day the last couple weeks. Now granted, I don't think it's necessarily healthy. Like I, like I said, I weigh a hundred and between last camp and this camp, I was about one hundred and ninety two, one hundred and ninety three, which is just crazy to get down to one hundred and fifty five. So I had to not only cut fat, but I needed to shed a little bit of muscle as well. So, you know, you wanna I mean, you're in shape and you you wanna keep building muscle and get lean. You know, you can you can have some carbs as well to keep building that.

Tom Rowland: This picture of you this picture of you is people is insane. All governed by you by the way. You look like you look like, where where can I find that? I sent it to my kids. That's where I could find it. This thing.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. So that was so, yeah, that was the day,

Tom Rowland: Three days before is what

Michael Chandler: you said. Three days before. Yeah. So so you're still a little bit you're not as emaciated as as you are, like, the day of the fight. You know, you look at me the day of the weigh ins. If I'm a hundred and fifty five pounds, I'm dehydrated. I'm not as full, and the veins aren't popping as much because I don't really have much food or water in my system. You know? But, yeah, I just manipulate the water at the very end and obviously get myself down to I don't even know what my body fat is there. What is death? Death is one. Yeah. Death is like one.

Tom Rowland: So it's probably like four. I mean, this is about as I mean, you you could go to any bodybuilding competition anywhere in the world and you're not gonna see anybody that's any leaner than that.

Michael Chandler: That's pretty it's pretty crazy.

Tom Rowland: And then the light's better on the side. And

Michael Chandler: yeah. And and if we can talk about some, it's it's really unfortunate that there's so many and and I'll tie this back into mindset. There's so many skeptics out there, and they look at a picture like that and say, man, juice, and PEDs and steroids, they're they're rampant inside the UFC. You know? I'll tell you right now, Tom, I got a app on my phone that tells Usada that this is my address, and they can show up here whenever they want. Most of the time, they show up in the morning or at night to either get the first or the last sample of the day. I've gotten blood I've gotten blood tests, urine tests. Most of mine have been blood and urine at the same time. And it's just unfortunate that there's so many people that still think that you cannot accomplish that without performance enhancing drugs, without PEDs, without steroids, without all these other things. And they talk about people can get get around tests. Like I said, USADA will show up or can show up on my doorstep at any time. Mhmm.

Tom Rowland: How much notice? Zero notice. They call you.

Michael Chandler: They call you and say, I'm at I'm at your doorstep. So I know I know I've been tested by the same person pretty much here in Tennessee and then two or three different people down in Florida. I've been tested on vacation. Like, when I go to Arizona here in a week and I stay there for about two weeks, they will have my address every day. I wouldn't be surprised if I got tested on vacation. I've been tested on vacation in Arizona, tested on vacation in California, and they just show up and say, hey, this is Joe with USADA. I'm at your front door, and that's it. That's the notice that you get. So but I tie it back into mindset. It's just unfortunate. I get we've all been let down by the amount of people who have used performance enhancing drugs and gotten caught. We've all been let down that our fame our favorite sports star, and I grew up loving Mark Maguire and watching him with Sammy Sosa.

Tom Rowland: Crushed when Lance Armstrong.

Michael Chandler: And Lance Armstrong.

Tom Rowland: My my boys are like, dad, what do you think about Lance Armstrong? I'm like, boy, I really hope I really hope that he's not.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. And then you're just you're let down, and I and I get it. So maybe people are scarred from that, but it's going tying it back in a mindset, I think we are just we get so we look for that safety. We look for that safety switch. We look for that that that pull switch where we're just like, okay. Well, there's no way that that can be attainable. And I think our view of what the human body and what the human condition, what the human soul is capable of is so watered down and it's so diminished. And you're never gonna be able to make people believe what you believe about it. But when people throw those kind of accusations, it's just it's unfortunate because not only do I know that I'm clean, but I I can be used as a guy who says, well, you can look like that. Well, first of all, you can look like this if you're a professional athlete working out two or three times a day. And and that's all you do. If if you got a nine to five and you work out once once every three days and you do buys and tries, no. You're not gonna look like that. But that's that's what you look like whenever you pour your heart and soul into athletics since you were 14 years old.

Tom Rowland: Well, the other thing is that would you wanna walk around like that?

Michael Chandler: Well, I get I maybe actually, I kinda would, actually. I mean, it'd be cool to look

Tom Rowland: like that, but how did you feel? Like

Michael Chandler: I actually at that point, I felt pretty good. So three days out, I'm still drinking a gallon and a half of water that day. You know, I do a water load, you know, two and a half gallons, two gallons, one and a half, one. You know, you fill your body up with water and then it excretes it and eating small meals.

Tom Rowland: When you're drinking that much water, I'm I've been doing a lot of reading lately on salt. Mhmm. How much salt are you putting in your body when you're when you're trying to wring out everything?

Michael Chandler: Salt is one thing that I wanna talk to numerous people about. I wanna talk to doctor Anthony Huberman about it.

Tom Rowland: What about Andrew Huberman? D Nickel Antonio. Do you know him? He follows you. I see him on your on your thing.

Michael Chandler: I don't know. You gotta check that guy out. His because that stuff I actually reached out to Huberman after this last one because he was talking about deliberate heat exposure. And I'm like, hey, man. I am deliberately exposing myself to a lot of heat during dehydrates. You know? Because ultimately, man, I wanna win all the belts. I wanna make all the money and fight under all the bright lights. But, man, running around in this backyard with my two sons and my wife and being there for them, that's the that's the real goal that's gonna last forever. This all this stuff is it's awesome, and I love it. That and I love that people follow it, and I love that people maybe wanna be like that. But, man, being able to serve my family, that's the most important thing. So I I want to I wanna make the decisions and do this in the most educated way that I possibly can.

Tom Rowland: And we're learning more and more all the time.

Michael Chandler: All the time. But, yeah, the salt thing is is one thing that I need to talk to people about because the conventional wisdom says get rid of all the salt so then your body excretes more water. But I've heard other people talk about make sure your electrolytes are on.

Tom Rowland: I know. Well, I mean, that could be true for for for ringing out all the all the moisture in your body, which you obviously did as an incredible dummy. You're the super expert on that. And bodybuilders do that all the time, and wrestlers do that all the time. But is it is it the best? And can you recover quickly enough? Like this, doctor d Anton, James d Nickel Antonio.

Michael Chandler: That's his last name. D d Nickel Antonio.

Tom Rowland: He was a wrestler. Holy cow. Yeah. He was a wrestler. He just wrote that on a bracket.

Michael Chandler: I drew Deed Nickel Antonio.

Tom Rowland: Yeah, I know. It would be the whole thing. But he, he he's got a great book right now. It's called Win. And he talks a ton about sauna in there, talks about ice, but his big thing is salt. And he has another book called The Salt Fix. And I've been looking at that.

Michael Chandler: I've seen that. I've seen that.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. And then, then, the paleo guy, Rob Wolf, he's come out with the element. It's like a little stick. It's a thousand milligrams of sodium.

Michael Chandler: And I think I've seen that before.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. It's it's getting more popular now, but there's a lot of research on the salt. But were you using salt when you're trying to when you're drinking that much water, two and a half gallons, then two gallons, and is that what

Michael Chandler: you said? That's not a lot of water for me. Honestly, I'm drinking I'm drinking two gallons of water a day every day during training, and I do salt my food. And I still am using my favorite, my favorite favorite electrolyte is Ultima Replenisher. It comes in a grape and a blue raspberry and a couple other ones. That's my favorite one, and I and I use it at least in a gallon a day. And I will say, yeah, I mean, I've I've had some weight cuts too where you gotta be careful when you do dehydrate yourself, you have to put those electrolytes back in first. Because if you just drink straight water, your body will start cramping up pretty bad. You know, I've had some some stuff like that. And it's man, you know, I I think that's one thing that's it's really hard to talk about because you don't wanna talk to anybody about losing water weight or any kind of stuff. I am not a doctor. I am not an expert. I'm not gonna be liable for that. I do wish there was a little bit more education for these young guys wrestling and, you know, because you start cutting weight at such an early age. That's one thing my son will never ever do if he does decide to wrestle.

Tom Rowland: I don't I don't, you know, like, I'm I was the wrestling parent that had a little bit of a background in in in wrestling and stuff. And so a lot of the other parents are like, what do you think about this? You know, should they cut weight? And I was like, I don't know.

Michael Chandler: That's a hard that's a hard question

Tom Rowland: to answer. Like, can they make the team? Like, you know, if that's the only spot, then you gotta do it. But they had this this thing where they they started to monitor, like, all the season, and they would they would weigh in, you know, way early. And then they would say, okay, well, you can make it to this weight class safely, whatever. But you had to weigh in really early.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. We started, like, college too. I don't think that's good

Tom Rowland: because, now they're gonna be cutting weight all year long. Yep. Where, like, we would just go right up two weeks before he cut down or whatever. But I don't know. I don't think it's good for a growing person No. To be cutting weight. You end up the size we are.

Michael Chandler: That's what I just I always make that joke when I'm talking about, yeah, I was supposed to be six three two.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Me too.

Michael Chandler: But, you know, I started cutting weight when I and during those important growing years and,

Tom Rowland: like, yeah.

Michael Chandler: So now we're, like,

Tom Rowland: like, a fire plug.

Michael Chandler: You're like, really? No. My dad's five six, but whatever. You know? Like, I wasn't

Tom Rowland: feel like I should have been taller. I swear. Yeah. And people tell me that. They you look taller on TV. I'm thinking.

Michael Chandler: Oh, thank you. I

Tom Rowland: always say that.

Michael Chandler: Or or they'll kinda be disappointed. Like, man, I thought you'd be bigger.

Tom Rowland: I'm like, yeah.

Michael Chandler: Am I not good enough for you? Yeah. You know, like, am I you know?

Tom Rowland: No. You'd be bigger. I've had so many people tell me that. Oh, yeah. Wow. That that's you?

Michael Chandler: Yeah. Little old me. Yeah. Here's what they got. Little old me. Exactly.

Tom Rowland: I'm right here.

Michael Chandler: Put a camera on me. It adds 10 pounds in a in a foot tall.

Tom Rowland: That's funny.

Michael Chandler: But I love this sport. Yeah. It's it's, that's the only thing too. When you talk about weight cutting, people are always like, oh, they should do more weight classes or they should but if you do more weight classes, all you're gonna, you know, say say we did a one sixty five division in mixed martial arts. Are you gonna be all you're gonna do now?

Tom Rowland: One ninety fives are coming down or the two zero five.

Michael Chandler: Exactly. They're going to be coming down to one sixty. There, there really is no way to get, get around it. And, and I've, you know, that's why I call that Connor at one seventy. So hopefully, hopefully I can get counter fight at one seventy. I hope

Tom Rowland: you do. I hope you do. That would be

Michael Chandler: That would be fun.

Tom Rowland: That would be incredible. It would be

Michael Chandler: most the most enjoyable training camp of my entire career, not having to cut weight. Because part of it 90% of it is stepping on the scale every day and realizing, okay. I got this many pounds left. It's not just, oh, I I gotta go do this hard work. The hard work is easy. But, you know, depriving your body your body of of the food that it wants or water at certain times, it's just it's not conducive to long term happiness and success, but it's what I've done since I was 14. And I I will that will be one thing that I do not ever miss about the sport.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. Do you think I mean, I heard you say one time that you thought that you you wish I could do away with it, but do you see any way that that's possible? Weight cutting? Mhmm.

Michael Chandler: No. No. I mean, the only thing I would say is there's an organization called One Championship. I like the way that they do it. So for instance, if you're a hundred and fifty five pounds, if you're a hundred and fifty five pounder, you're a hundred you're a lightweight fight weighing in at one fifty five, you don't have to weigh one fifty five, but what you do have to weigh is one seventy and pass a hydration test. Because if you think about it, it's about the same. I get myself down to one seventy, then I cut the water weight down to one fifty five, or I stay at one seventy and I pass a hydration test, which basically means I have a gallon or two gallons of water in me and I'm hydrated. So would I pass a hydration test when I'm down at one hundred and fifty five? Never in a million years, you know? But so what did you do? You basically said, hey, as long as you weigh one hundred and seventy and I weigh one hundred and seventy and we get on this hydration, we pee on a stick or pee on the hydration thing and we're between, you know, a half of a color decimal or whatever that hydration thing is, that means we weigh about the same. Maybe you're a little bit heavier than me. Maybe I'm a little bit heavier than you. Maybe I I'm sure there's ways guys can cheat it, but that's the one way that I've seen that I'm that I think that makes a lot of sense because does the weight on does this weight on the scale really matter that much if you're a 100 if we're for a hundred and seventy pounds and both hydrated, you know? It's I don't know. That would be the one way that I could see them doing it, but I don't think the UFC ever adopts that because one championship was the first one to do it, you know? So I could see them. But part of it, guess I'll keep cutting weight till I'm finally sick of it.

His Greatest Strength and Biggest Weakness

Tom Rowland: Well, we'll, I know that you got a lot of stuff going on, and we're gonna we're gonna start to bring this to a close. It's been awesome, man. Thank you. What do you think your greatest strength is?

Michael Chandler: My greatest strength, I I honestly think is that I just I want to get better at all times in all aspects of life. And I think it it stems from that, from that walk on mentality. I think I hold myself to a very high standard. My wife and I are are so equally yoked in this. Like, it's not always a healthy thing because you put so much pressure on yourself or you're too hard on yourself when she's a phenomenal mom, but you talk to her someday, she feels like she's the worst mom ever. You know, she's a phenomenal doctor, phenomenal, in her in her in her professional life and phenomenal in all these different aspects of her life. But she has these moments where she's like, I just didn't do anything right today. You know? You you have this this healthy obsession with trying to be better and expecting so much more out of yourself. And I think the worst thing that we can do as human beings, and I think I've said it a couple times now, is essentially look at yourself like you you can't accomplish great things. You can't be above board. You can't be the best person on the entire planet when it comes to integrity, character. It's okay to believe that you can be an honest person and hardworking and do things right. I think I ultimately want to do things right at all times, and I fail every single day. But I I have the yearning and the desire to be that, and I have the yearning and the desire to get better every single day. And life keeps changing. Seasons are anew. Now I'm trying to be the best father of two young boys instead of just a father to have my first son, you know? And then before that, it was not just trying to be a great fighter, but now being a fighter and a husband, and now a fighter, a father, and a husband, and just believe in that. Once again, going back to James one five, you know, he who lacks wisdom, ask for it. And in all of these all of these different seasons, I truly believe that I can just continue to get better. And not not that I can, but that I will. I will get better. And that's one of my favorite jokes that I still tell my wife every single day. It's kind of a joke, but it's kinda not. And she's like she's like she just the best moments of my life are when my wife looks at me and she says it heartfelt, and she just says, you are a good man. You know? And, obviously, it always, you know, gets me emotional because it's I I love when she tells me that. But also, I always tell her, like, don't worry. I'll get better. You know? Because I and I do truly believe that. I think I don't know. I just have a yearning to get better. And it's maybe it's the wrestler in me. If I drill that high crotch a thousand times, I'm gonna get better at it. I'm gonna get better at it. I'm gonna get better at it. And it's just the constant repetition, brick by boring brick that we build every single thing that we build our life upon every single day. And so I'd say that's my my greatest strength. I have seen that the proof is in the pudding that I can get better and I will get better at every single thing that I do. Nice.

Tom Rowland: What's the great what's your biggest weakness?

Michael Chandler: My biggest weakness, I think even still to this day is you you know, I've talked a lot about mindset, talked a lot about building myself out of that small guy from the small town who was taught to do small things, but he's still inside of there. You know? And I and I I will admit that I'm kinda happy he's still there, you know, because it it helps me continue to rely on getting better. And and John Gordon, the author told me that when I did his podcast one day, he said because I said, you know, I wish I I've I've gotten really good at taking that small guy from the small town who's talked to do small things, and I've gotten really good at duct taping him to the basement of my mind. You know, I kinda like these little these like visualizations. Right? I'm a visualizing guy. I just duct taped his little punk who just had, you know, he's just trying to sabotage my life. I've gotten good at duct tape him to the bottom of my basement of my mind and putting a roll of duct tape around his mouth. And he said, well, Michael And I said, I just I just wish I could get rid of him completely. And he's like, well, well, Michael, if you got rid of him, then where would be the place for God? Why would you have any reliance on God? Why would you need to why would you need to rely on on a higher power whatsoever if you were able to just excommunicate these these demons or these things that you can't get over? And I said, That's a really, really good point. So maybe in my mindset coach, Jim Henshall, I think would be a phenomenal interview for you.

Tom Rowland: That's your mindset coach? Well, he he was there with Rich Froning.

Michael Chandler: Yeah. He he talked about slaying dragons. He said some slack some dragons we slay, some we just get really good at pushing into a corner. Mhmm. And once you once you accept that and realize you're not gonna be able to slay all your dragons, Tom, but you're gonna be good at compartmentalize them and push them in into a corner where they stop rearing their ugly little head. You know? So going back to the the question or the answer to your question, my biggest weakness is that that little guy from that little town still rears his head in certain weird unexpected moments. You know? Like, I feel I still feel really uncomfortable thinking that I can make a ton of money. Still feel really uncomfortable thinking I can be on this huge platform. But without the money, you can't bless a lot of people. Without the huge platform, you can't bless and impact as many people. So it's a hard, weird, reciprocating, you know, revolving door of you have to have the success to get the platform, to get the to get the money, to be able to bless the people, but there's still this unhealthy relationship with it. And I have no problem with admitting that because I think that's part of my testimony. I think it's part of my story, and I think there's a lot of people out there from a small town from or a small guy from a small town who will probably feel that same exact way. And if I'm sitting over here and I was able to break the mold, but I'm also still haunted by those things and governed by those things in a lot of a lot of ways, it's gonna break the chains for them. Right. Of course.

Tom Rowland: I had a friend that just did the Ironman this last weekend, and he, did he pee blood? Probably probably. But but a couple of days before, he wasn't feeling good. And he said, he sent me a text. He's like, man, not feeling good. I said, k. Well, what are you gonna do? He goes, I don't know. It's probably the it's probably just the the inner bitch inside me. And I said, well, maybe. And he said, I gotta I gotta dominate him. Yeah. And I said, well or or you could just take him with you Mhmm. And show him that you can do it, and then he'll never doubt you again.

Michael Chandler: Oh my gosh.

Tom Rowland: And and he was like, Never thought about it like that. But, I mean, it's like a lot of different things. There's the duct tape and on the in the basement and trying to keep him quiet. Mhmm. Then there's John Gordon or or Jimmy Hensel saying, no. No. Just just corral him. Yeah. And then some people say, well, you need you need to name it. You know, you need to understand it and name it and understand what this is that you're dealing with. Yep. And then there's some another, thing that, you know, just bring him with you. Yeah. Just show him.

Michael Chandler: I actually love what you just said. I I as you said, I I imagined him running with this, like, little this little bitch on his shoulder. Like, this little

Tom Rowland: this is all good. Looks like you are doing it.

Michael Chandler: But then all of a sudden by mile 28, by mile 20. Okay. Alright. Fine. You can do it. I guess we'll guess what? I guess we'll finish now. Whatever. Just let's get me back and give me a snow cone. You know? Like Exactly. And then you put him back into his place and be like, okay. Hey. Next time, why don't you just keep a little bit more quiet? And I think, actually, if you think about even my metaphor, I think that's kinda consistently what has happened. That little guy from little town that the he's got duct tape over his mouth, but every now and he's able to pull

Tom Rowland: it off.

Michael Chandler: But but it gets but it gets it gets these the the words get less venomous because I'm me as the human being, the Michael Chandler standing here, I'm like, no. Shut up, dude. That's not true. That's an old thought. That's an old story I used to tell myself. What are you talking about? Right. Or it comes more and more infrequently or the the voice is a little bit quieter and it's I love that you just said that. That's I mean, because I am bringing that little I'm basically bringing him bringing me everywhere I go. Yeah. Everywhere. You know? And it's And you can't

Tom Rowland: destroy him. No. You can try to silence him.

Michael Chandler: But once yeah. But once I think whenever whenever Jim Hensel said that to me that you just get really good at pushing them into a corner. There's there's an accountability with it. Mhmm. But there's also an acceptance. You know? When you try to it's like we talked about earlier when you try to meet a goal and you and you just it's the end all be all and you have to you have to do it, it starts to take control of you. But once you accept that little guy from little town, that little the little dude inside you, the little naysayer, the little whatever, do you once you realize and accept that you're never gonna slay him, then you can just be comfortable living with him and bringing him with you.

Tom Rowland: You ever read, Secrets of a Millionaire Mind? It's a little book about this thick.

Michael Chandler: No. But that's my favorite kind. That's my favorite kind. If those of you didn't see, he just made this little quarter inch load. That's my

Tom Rowland: favorite guy. I can get through this one. Yeah. But in there, he talks about this. He has a whole chapter on this, and he's like, yeah. You know, sometimes this little person is gonna rear his head. Mhmm. And he said he thought of himself as being like a a teacher at in a grammar school or something where you just have a rowdy class. Yeah. And there's a kid in the back that's, like, making smart out Alec comments and stuff, and he just says, thanks for sharing Yeah. And moves on. And that's your guy. Yeah. Like, when he says that, you just say, thanks for sharing, and you move on.

Michael Chandler: Well, I like what you say. You said name it. You know? Mhmm. Acknowledge it. Name it. And then, okay. Thank you. But your your input is is no longer needed.

Tom Rowland: No vote.

Michael Chandler: But but when you No vote is no vote. But but when you but when you, I don't know. When you don't, when you try to ignore it, that's that's the thing too. When you when you try to ignore it, it it it gives it more control over you.

Tom Rowland: You

Michael Chandler: know, you have you give it more control when you try to ignore it because because you're making it bigger than it actually is, you know? Yeah. I like that idea. I didn't bring him with you. Yeah. Hop on here. You can just hop in my pocket. Little pump.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I'll bring him. I'll bring him. I'll show you. I like it. Okay. So I've got five questions to finish off this. Biggest weight cut you've ever made.

Rapid-Fire Questions and What Comes Next

Michael Chandler: Probably this last one. Well, yeah, this last one. I mean, the biggest.

Tom Rowland: Almost 40 Yeah.

Michael Chandler: One ninety three. I was consistently one ninety one to one ninety three. Now granted to the ladies and gentlemen at home, I, you know, I had to take about six weeks off. I, you know, jacked up my foot pretty bad, ankle pretty bad, shin pretty bad, and my face was, you know, pretty jacked up after the Justin Gaethje fight. So I I was hobbling around for about four four to four weeks gender gingerly. So I don't normally get that that heavy, you know, but I'll probably stay between one eighty six and one ninety.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm. K. Top three books that you can think of that you've read.

Michael Chandler: Top three books. The greatest book, in my opinion, of all time is As a Man Thinketh. And it go it goes back to your you know, Linda, that it's about this big. Y'all can get it off Amazon. There's a 25 different versions. As a Man Thinketh by James Allen. I would go with Wild at Heart by John Eldridge. And then a a ringer, kind of from left field. It's a golf book called How Champions Think by doctor Bob Rotella. And it's a sports psychology book. And I picked it up at the airport, one of those airport impulse buys. It said, well, the the name is really cool, how champions think. I picked it up, read the back. I was like, this is great. Got on the plane, had my little my little napkin as a as a bookmark, southwest napkin as bookmark. Started reading and realized it was a book all about golf. I hate golf. I like golf now. I hated golf back then. I really dislike golf now. I like to play it. But when you realize the similarities between a the one on one sport, you versus you of golf, It's so similar to wrestling, and it's so similar to mixed martial arts. And, truthfully, it's so similar to being a man, being entrepreneur, being being a bit being a business owner in any aspect of life. So as a man thinketh wild at heart and how champions think, and there's a couple other ones that I could probably name, but it could be three.

Tom Rowland: One thing that you tell young wrestlers or fighters.

Michael Chandler: I think the the biggest thing is focus on the long game. You want to be the guy who's in in this seat right here as 36 years old, about to probably sign a new contract with the UFC, had all had all these years of providing for his family, had the delayed gratification to play the career right and have the long game in mind. I've been fighting for fourteen years now. You don't wanna be the guy who gets in the UFC. He's a flash in the pan. He goes one and two, and then now you gotta fight outside the UFC and get yourself back in. You know, these days, anybody can really get to the UFC. It's staying in the UFC. So focus on the long game. Have a phenomenal have a phenomenal, stable of people around you, coaches and training partners, and have phenomenal phenomenal management who thinks about the long game, not just the next fight. Nice.

Tom Rowland: What's the first if you're a quote guy, I know you quote a lot of things. What's the first quote you remember? First quote that comes to mind right now.

Michael Chandler: To give anything less than your best is a sacrifice, the gift. Steven Prefontaine. Or the one that I love to live by too that's a little bit separate is Zig Ziglar's. You can have everything you want in life if you will just help enough other people get what they want in life.

Tom Rowland: Nice. I love it. Okay. Now at one point, you said that your finish of Benson Henderson was the best shining moment in your career. Yep. Now we're a couple weeks outside of what I consider one of the most spectacular knockouts in all of combat sports history ever against one of the scariest dudes that I could imagine, being around. Not not only being in the cage with, but just being around Tony Ferguson. Tons of respect for that guy. Where does that one rank in your

Michael Chandler: I always I always look at more than just the fight. Obviously, when I talked about the Benson Henderson one, that was because that's a do or die moment for me. That was my walk on moment. You know? If I don't win that fight, I'm not able to walk on to the UFC. Or if I do, they're gonna lowball me so badly that I'm that I'm not gonna walk on or I'm not gonna make the switch. But now that you talk about being in this moment after my fourth fight now in the UFC and and finishing a legend legend like like Tony Ferguson who had never been knocked out, he had never been separated from consciousness. This this I think, as you know, there was a a a moment that, as you said, I mean, Joe Rogan called it the one of the most vicious knockouts he's ever seen. Dana said the same thing. And, obviously, these guys are, you know, fight promoters and whatnot, but I think that was probably the the the single moment, the best moment of my career because when you talk about eyeballs, when you talk about platforming, when you talk about how many times it's been replayed all over the Internet, I think, you know, a a different level has been hit after this, and I just I feel truly blessed, man. It's it's really, really cool, and it's a crazy freaking sport that I'm a part of, but I'm gonna keep on doing it, I guess.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. You're very, you're very level headed for for the amount of success that you have. You're you're it's not surprising. Most of the high level martial artists that I've been around, the Navy Seals that I've been around, the most dangerous people on the planet that I've been around are just like you. They're calm. They're cool. They're confident. Who keeps you in check?

Michael Chandler: I think, I will I will I'll give you one one real one and one one fantasy one. I think one real one is my wife. I think I would just say my family in general, my wife and my two sons. And because when you become a father and you hold that child in your hands for the first time, you look them in the eyes and they don't understand what you're saying, but you promise to love and serve and protect them and take care of them the rest of your life. You start to realize, okay. When I was young and single and it was just about me and it was just about the bright lights and the belts, that was cool. But then it became about my wife and every decision I made positively or negative negatively affected her. But she's a she's a adult human being who, quite frankly, my wife would be just fine without me. She is very autonomous and she's a very independent woman. I love that about her. That's why we work really well. But when I decided to adopt my first son and now my second son and I have chosen to take on guardianship and take on the father role for these two children, every single word that I'm speaking in this microphone right now, every single word when this record button gets turned off, every single decision that I make is another brush stroke on this canvas of this masterpiece that I'm painting for them. So I think me realizing that my family, not just them physically by their words that they're fantasy of the Michael Chandler in an alternate universe who makes a couple bad decisions and his life completely falls apart. His his blessings completely get bastardized. His the platform that I have completely crumbles because of a couple bad decisions that I make or, ultimately, the hard work that I didn't put in. And I get to a point where I'm living in so much self loathing, self regret that my pillow feels like a 40 pound cinder block every day because I know that I didn't do everything I possibly could. And I think that's those are the two things that kinda keep me in check. The real ones here on earth physically, my wife and my two sons knowing that I'm I'm painting a masterpiece for them, and they are positively or negatively affected by every decision I'm making, every action I have, or that future me who is only one or two bad decisions away. I think it was I think it was Jeff Foxworthy who I think it's Jeff Foxworthy on the Ed Mylett podcast. Did he did you listen to that one? Mm-mm. No. It's it's great, man. But he talks about he's like, you know, I'm just I'm just about two bad decisions away from being a painter. You know? And it's true. I'm like, you know, maybe for Jeff Foxworthy, it would be a a painter. You know? Think about him in Arkansas or Georgia or wherever he's from, like, just painting painting houses because he made a couple bad decisions. Isn't that where we all are? Yeah. We're all a couple bad decisions away from for me, it might be coach general coaching wrestling or doing doing whatever it might be, something that I would maybe love to do. I would actually love to coach wrestling, but it's not where my passion is right now. We're only one one or two bad decisions away from a life that is very much subpar compared to where we where we are now. Wow.

Tom Rowland: So you just gotta keep that future. That future me is something that that I did in this thing we call that it was called seal fit. We go out to live that. We we did do you know what that is?

Michael Chandler: No. Well, I what I love the I love the the future me.

Tom Rowland: Well, yeah. So Mark Devine is this Navy SEAL, and he you go there for fifty hours and you train with them, and it's like a snapshot of hell week for a regular dude. And, in that, he took us out on this run. We get to this incredible place on the beach, and he does this future me thing. And he says, I want you to imagine yourself. He walks you all the way through it. And you imagine yourself with this incredible success or whatever it is that you want at that point. And it was very, very, very powerful. I mean, the California surf has hit me in the face and it's just awesome. It was amazing. And with him walking you through it, it was just incredible. But what you're doing also is you've got this future me that you're talking about where you where you you you got your hands on the sink. You're you're taking the gloves off and who you want to be and who you want to be for your family. But then you also have this other future me, the the the, antagonist of that, of two bad decisions, and you could be whatever. Yeah. And it's just interesting how you keep those in balance. Like but but the future me, both the negative future me and the positive future me is a guiding light for you. Yeah.

Michael Chandler: And and maybe it's just the way that I'm wired. Maybe maybe someone would tell you it should all be about positive psychology. You shouldn't think about, you know, that that negative person or that bad person that you could become. But for me, it's for me, coming from where I came from, I don't despise where I came from, or I don't despise the the young man that I was. I use him to fuel me, and I never wanna go back to that thinking. I never wanna go back to that that feeling of insignificance of where I was. So for me, it works, and that's just me personally. And maybe there's somebody who who thinks, you know what? Maybe I need to do it. Maybe I'm high on the hog right now. Maybe I need to think that I really am only two two bad decisions or two broken relationships or break this relationship or break that relationship that could be the most sacred relationships on Yeah. On the planet. Because really, I boil it down to three things, hard work, trying to be a good person, and surround yourself with the best people possible. And you sever some of those relationships or you start slacking off or you so you, sacrifice your integrity and all of a sudden everything falls by the wayside. I don't want to become that man. Yeah. And I'm scared to death of him.

Tom Rowland: Well, I'll tell you what, you are on the other. You're going the other direction from all outward appearances.

Michael Chandler: Thank you.

Tom Rowland: And, it's not a surprise. Well, we sit down and talk to you about about the way that your mind works and the way that you you, you take what your mind's doing and then you put in the work. I mean, that's where it really comes down to is you got positive mindset. You're going you know where you're gonna go and you're not afraid to put in the work to do it. So, man, it's awesome. When's your next fight? I don't know. When's Connor gonna sign the paper?

Michael Chandler: I don't know. I mean, it would be great if it was Connor. You know, obviously, you heard, you know, the call out after the fight. I I would love to fight for the title. Don't know if that's gonna happen. If not, I would love to fight Connor at one seventy or, you know, another big fight.

Tom Rowland: You know? The title's vacant right now.

Michael Chandler: Right? Title is vacant. I mean, technically, Charles Oliveira will fight for it. You know, he'll be the number one contender, but

Tom Rowland: it's it is technically vacant. So it's a strange mix of how you come up with number two right now. Yeah. Because you fought Gaethje. You fought, Oliveira. And Hooker and all the people that are in the in the mix. All the people that are in the mix fought one another. Yeah. And some have won and some have lost, and and and it's just a funny mix right there. Yeah.

Michael Chandler: It is. I mean, there's there's there's an argument to be made for for Makhachev fighting for the title next even though he's only had one fight, one win in the side of the UFC. There's an there's an argument for Dariusz to come back after his injury and and go right into it. There's a and then there's an argument for me. My I have two losses in the UFC. They were both barn burners to to the current champion and the number one contender who was Justin Gaethje. You know? So Dustin Poirier had just fought Oliveira two fights ago. So it's an interesting weight class. It's

Tom Rowland: a Yeah. I mean, how do I forget him?

Michael Chandler: Yeah. It's well, I forgot about him too the other day when somebody

Tom Rowland: asked me. He's been quiet lately.

Michael Chandler: He's been quiet, but he's also been talking about going to one seventy. So I think I took him out of the title picture and he just fought for the title. So, you know, I, it's an interesting weight class. And, obviously, you got the caveat or the the the ringer, which is Connor, who could come back. He could come back and pee in everybody's oatmeal and just become become the, you know, fight for the title. You know? Who knows? I don't think the UFC will do that, but they've earned the right to be able to do that, and Connor has earned the right to be in that position. So, I'm definitely not fighting till at least the wintertime, November, December, if not January, February. So we'll see.

Tom Rowland: Well, whatever happens, I wish you all the very best. I'll be in your corner and, can't wait to see it. Can't wait to see it. Thanks for sitting down.

Michael Chandler: Thank you so much, Ray.

Tom Rowland: At the top. That's what you're supposed to say.

Michael Chandler: See you at the top.

Tom Rowland: All right. Thank you, Mike. Thanks. Everybody follow Mike Chandler. How's your answer? What's your Instagram? How do they follow you? How do they see your YouTube page? All of the things.

Michael Chandler: At Mike Chandler MMA on, Instagram and Twitter. And then, yeah, I'm gonna start pumping out some more content on YouTube at, Michael Chandler, slash Mike Chandler Rene.

Tom Rowland: Okay. Alright. That's it. Thanks, Michael. Thank you, guys. See you.