The blood knot and the triple surgeon's knot are two ways to join sections of a tapered fly fishing leader, and anglers argue about which is stronger around every campfire. In this How 2 Tuesday I take Knot Wars into fly fishing ahead of an Alaska trip, tying both in Orvis SuperStrong Plus tippet joining 3X to 4X, and breaking each on my NexTech force tester. I like the blood knot and hoped it would win, but in science you do not hope, you test.
Listen now: press play in the player above and follow along.
The blood knot won, and it was not close. On my retest joining 3X to 4X tippet the blood knot broke at 4.42 pounds and the triple surgeon's knot at 2.52 pounds. That is nearly two extra pounds of drag you could put on a fish with the blood knot. The surgeon's knot lost badly both times I tested it, so for joining leader sections I am sticking with the blood knot.
In my testing it simply broke at a much lower number, about 2.52 pounds versus the blood knot's 4.42 on the same 3X to 4X tippet. On top of being weaker, it does not sit smooth, it kicks up and back down, and it leaves tag ends that catch vegetation in the river. So if you are tying a double or triple surgeon's knot for trout and breaking off a lot of fish, the knot's strength may be the reason why.
I used Orvis SuperStrong Plus nylon tippet, a popular fly fishing tippet, joining 3X to 4X. In tippet terms 3X is about 8.5 pounds and 4X is about 6 pounds, so I was hoping the connection would break above six. SuperStrong has been around a long time, and there is also a fluorocarbon version, but for this test I wanted to use the exact nylon tippet I would fish with.
Fly fishermen rate thin tippet by X instead of pound test, and the higher the X, the smaller and weaker the line. Roughly, 0X is about 14.9 pounds, 2X about 9.8 pounds, 3X about 8.5 pounds, 4X about 6 pounds, and it keeps dropping through 5X, 6X, 7X, and 8X, which is about as thin as human hair. Technical spring creeks call for 7X or 8X, which is why a lot of us end up wearing glasses to thread the fly.
Because it suits the purpose better. The blood knot, also called a barrel knot, comes together clean and smooth so it slides through weeds and through the guides on your rod easily. The surgeon's knot does weird things to the leader and snags vegetation. Even if the surgeon's had tested stronger, I would not use it, because you are not always after the strongest knot, you are after the one that best fits the job.
No. My first round gave strange low numbers, 2.67 and 1.5 pounds, that I did not trust, so I retied fresh line and tested again, which is exactly what you should do. Even my better numbers tell me there is probably a better knot and a better way to tie it out there. A single test is a starting point. Tie fresh, test again, and look for a consistent result before you commit.
Here is how I compared these two tapered-leader knots, and how you can do the same with your own tippet.
I was getting ready for an Alaska trip, chasing trout, salmon, and Dolly Varden along with some offshore halibut and lingcod, and a fly leader is tapered down with knots. That made it the perfect time to settle a debate I have had around many campfires: blood knot or triple surgeon's. I set the whole thing up in the episode, so press play in the player above.
My first round gave numbers so low, 2.67 and 1.5 pounds, that I knew something was off and stopped to retie fresh line. The retest was cleaner: 4.42 for the blood knot and 2.52 for the surgeon's. That is why you never trust a single odd pull. I walk through that whole sequence in the episode, so press play in the player above.
Even though the blood knot won, I make the point that strength is not the only thing. The blood knot sits smooth, slides through the guides, and does not snag weeds, and I would tie it over the surgeon's even if the numbers were reversed. I explain that thinking in the episode, so press play in the player above.
How 2 Tuesday is my weekly series where I break down one fishing skill at a time, from knots and casting to gear, tactics, and the habits that make you a better angler. Watch and listen to every How 2 Tuesday episode from Tom Rowland.
blood knot · barrel knot · triple surgeon's knot · tapered leader · Orvis SuperStrong Plus tippet · 3X tippet · 4X tippet · fluorocarbon tippet · Alaska · trout fishing · salmon · Dolly Varden · NexTech force tester · How 2 Tuesday · Saltwater Experience
I am Tom Rowland, a professional fishing guide based in the Florida Keys, host of the Tom Rowland Podcast, and the longtime host of the Saltwater Experience television show. On the podcast How 2 Tuesday series I break down one practical skill or lesson at a time, from fishing technique and gear to the habits that make you a better angler, in short, focused episodes you can put to use right away.
Tom Rowland Podcast — Episode 662: Triple Surgeon vs. Blood Knot, Which Wins for Fly Fishing Leaders
In this episode: why fly fishermen use a tapered leader, what the x sizes really mean, the blood knot breaking at 4.42 pounds, the triple surgeons at 2.52 pounds, why the strongest knot is not always the one you fish — in the exact words spoken.
Tom Rowland: Hey, everybody.
It is how to Tuesday, and we are back with the knot wars.
The knot wars are where we take two knots similar in purpose and actually test them on the next tech force tester that I have right here in my hand.
The next tech force tester is cool because it will record the highest breaking strength, and then it will remain on the screen so we can see it.
We've done this with so many knots, and we've had a lot of people, ask for certain knots to go head to head.
And that's what I like because there's tons of videos on how to tie these knots.
Great.
Even I have a whole sesh series of these knots that you can get.
But there are very few that I've seen that will actually test them in a way that is useful to me.
And the way that is useful to me is to use the exact material that you're going to use when you get out there fishing and tie the knot, and then compare it to another knot that is of the same purpose.
So we've done it with a whole bunch of different ones.
And today, we're gonna go into the world of fly fishing because guess what?
I am going going to Alaska, and I'm getting ready to have this awesome trip in Alaska.
We're gonna go up there and fish for all kinds of stuff.
We're going offshore.
I've never done that up there.
Fish for halibut and lingcod.
And then we're also gonna be going there for what I have gone to Alaska for in the past, which is the salmon and trout fishing, Dolly Varden, all of those cool fish that are up there.
Plus, Alaska is just amazing and beautiful.
So we're gonna be doing some fly fishing up there.
Fly fishing for trout, and salmon is fantastic.
Tom Rowland: And if you are a fly fisherman, you understand that there is something called a tapered leader.
So if you're not a fly fisherman, this is what we're we're using this for.
The fly line is thick.
A lot of people that never fly fish before wonder how you get that thick line through those tiny little flies, and the answer is that it doesn't happen that way.
You use a tapered leader.
So off of the thick fly line, you use thick monofilament, and you use knots to taper it down to very thin line, like I'm holding in my hand right now.
Just very, very thin line.
When you get to this very thin line, fly fishermen like to do things a little different than everybody else, and they don't call it, six pound test, they call it four x.
Tom Rowland: And they don't call it, 8.5 pound test, they call it three x.
And all of these different spools are different x.
O x is 14.9 pounds.
Two x is 9.8 pounds, and it goes o x, two x, three x, four x, five x, six x, seven x.
The higher the x, the smaller pound test.
So if you're fishing, in a very technical Spring Creek, you're gonna be using, seven x or eight x, which is like human hair.
It is so thin and tiny, and you have to get it through the the eye of this hook, which means that old people have to wear glasses, or you get your fishing guide to do it.
Tom Rowland: So today, we're gonna discuss which of these knots work better, And that is a traditional leader for fly fishing is a lot of times it's tied with blood knots.
That's the way I like to tie it.
A blood knot is a knot that we use in salt water too, ties two two lines together.
It's, four or five turns on one side, four or five turns on the other side.
It comes together to it's also called a barrel knot.
It comes together to make a nice clean knot that can go through weeds and go through other things together, or very, very easily.
It can go through the ads in your in your rod very easily too.
And a fly fishing leader will be tapered down from the fine line to the fat monofilament all the way down to the five x, six x, seven x with blood knots, or there is actually something called a knotless tapered leader.
But when that starts to break, then you will repair it and add on tip it with a blood knot typically.
Tom Rowland: However, there a whole other school of thought with some other knots that you tie, and that is, one of them being a surgeon's knot.
Now I will go on record as to say, I do not like this knot.
I do not like it for a lot of reasons.
I don't know that if you can see this right now, but when you tie the knot, it doesn't sit smooth like this.
It goes up and comes down.
It also has some tag ends on it that catch, vegetation that may be in the river.
Okay?
So I do not like this knot.
I don't like the way it looks.
I don't like the way it casts, but there are certain people out there that absolutely like it, stick with it through thick and thin, and will tie it until the day they die, and they will swear that it's stronger.
Okay?
I've had many campfire discussions about this.
Tom Rowland: Which is stronger, a blood knot or a triple surgeon's knot?
K?
We're gonna find out today.
K?
I like the blood knot, and I hope that the blood knot tests better.
But in the scientific world, that's not how you do it.
You don't hope.
You don't you don't assume.
You test.
So and I will tell you right now that even if the surgeon's not test better, I'm still not gonna use it because I don't like what it does.
Okay?
So you're not always looking for the strongest knot.
Sometimes you're looking for the knot that suits the purpose the best, and I'm probably gonna stay with a blood knot despite what this thing says.
But we're going to start with the triple surgeon's loop, and we're gonna do it the way we've done all these other knots.
We're gonna do it with exactly the same stuff that we're gonna fish with out there when we're when we're fishing.
Tom Rowland: And so today, we're using Orvis SuperStrong Plus nylon.
This is fly fishing tippet, very popular fly fishing tippet.
And we're using three x, which is, 8.5 pounds, two, four x, which is six pounds.
K?
So Orvis, SuperStrong Tippet material.
This is actually SuperStrong Plus.
I don't know what the plus is all about, but SuperStrong is, a material that's been out there for a long time.
You'll also have fluorocarbon, Tippet material.
And so I wanna make sure that we're saying what we're using.
So this is the Orvis three x to four x, so 8.5 pound to 6.5 pound.
Hopefully, it's going to break higher than six.
K?
Tom Rowland: So I have a loop tied on the end of this, and I have a blood knot tied right there.
Oh, let's go for the blood knot first.
Okay.
I thought we were gonna do the other one first, but here we go.
So I've got the the blood knot below my hand.
I've got another knot up here, and I'm just gonna start pulling on the on the force tester here.
And what is it gonna be?
Not very strong.
I can tell you that.
Not very strong.
2.67 pounds.
We may have to do that one again.
Okay.
So two point six seven pounds for that, eight point five to six pounds.
That is not good.
Not good at all.
So maybe I didn't tie that knot properly.
Tom Rowland: K.
So now we have the triple surgeon's loop, and we're gonna pull on this one.
And how's it gonna do?
Even less.
1.5 pounds.
How is that even possible?
We're gonna have to do this whole thing again, because there's no possible way that that's how strong these are.
Okay.
We're gonna come back.
I'm gonna tie these again, and we're gonna test them again.
So stand by.
Tom Rowland: Okay.
We're back.
And I tied fresh fresh, lines.
K?
So I don't know what happened to the first one, but we're gonna test them again.
Still even have the, tag ends left on this blood knot.
We're gonna do the blood knot again first on the force tester, see if it's any stronger.
Now this is three x to four x.
Little stronger.
Okay.
4.42 pounds.
So that is eight pound eight and a half to six pounds, and it broke at 4.42.
Not really all that impressive.
K?
Tom Rowland: Now that was the blood knot, zeroed the scale, and go with the triple surgeons.
Boom.
2.52.
Boom.
Yes.
I don't like that knot, and it's not as strong.
And I knew it wasn't as strong, and I don't like the way it looks, and I don't like the way it performs.
So the surgeon's knot loses out badly twice at 2.52 pounds.
Now maybe I'm not tying it the right way, but I'm tying a triple surgeon's loop or or knot.
So I'm taking them, and I'm putting it through three times, tightening it down, making sure I'm wetting it first, and that tested out at 2.52 pounds.
Tom Rowland: So if you're trout fishing, you're using the double surgeons, triple surgeons loop, or triple surgeons knot, and you're breaking off a lot of fish, well, here's the reason why.
Because it appears that that knot stinks.
Not only does it do weird things with the leader, but it also is, not very strong.
So the blood knot is also not very strong when it comes to this, but it's much stronger than that.
4.4 something to 2.52 pounds, that's an extra two pounds of drag that you could be putting on your fish.
So and by the way, three x and four x is heavy line for trout fishing.
You get down into five x, this is now 4.4 pounds.
Six x is gonna be even smaller.
Eight x is, I think, below two pound test.
So basically, you're fishing with what you think is four x, but it's gonna break at almost eight x.
So you really have very little very little chance of catching the fish.
Tom Rowland: So today, the blood knot wins, but could there be a better knot?
There probably is, and there's probably a better way to tie it too.
But as for my test today, the blood knot is better than the triple surgeons, and that is what I'm gonna tie in Alaska.
Follow me on Tom underscore Roland on Instagram, and you can see a lot of the stuff that we're doing up there in Alaska.
It's gonna be a great trip.
Been to Alaska one time before, and I'm really, really looking forward to it.
It is a beautiful, beautiful place.
I love freshwater fishing, and we're gonna get you some saltwater fishing up there too.
So that will be super cool.
I'll see you out there, and I'll try to post some stuff on the Instagram.
Alright.
See you.
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